Quote by Alex DeLarge Yeah, I know. But Norway's revenue from North Sea oil is not on the same level as Scotland's. Aberdeen is the oil capital of Europe.
I can't see Scotland being weakend by independence, there would be inevitable teething problems, but not in the long run. I can see England being weakend by it however, again largely from the revenue that is created from the oil industry, but also from a military perspective. I think this is reflected by the reluctance to go down the road of independence by Westminster.
I don't want to get into a 'beggar thy neighbour' type discussion that, regrettably, seems to plague the independence debate...but....I think Scotland has far more to lose from a military perspective. Not least an independent nuclear deterrent. Whilst the base may be in Faslane, there's no way on earth Westminster would gift an independent Scotland a Trident sub or two.
You are right about Norway's oil revenues not being on the same level as Scotland's, but perhaps not in the way you imagined. Norway Oil revenues for 2011 - £21 Billion; Scotland (for last year available) - £7 Billion
You are right about Norway's oil revenues not being on the same level as Scotland's, but perhaps not in the way you imagined. Norway Oil revenues for 2011 - £21 Billion; Scotland (for last year available) - £7 Billion
Some difference!
If you look at the chart at the bottom of page 5 of my previous (second) link, it makes for pretty depressing reading for anyone one thinks oil revenues will keep an independent Scotland's economy going long-term. Declining oil production, and expected to continue declining.
Quote by Alex DeLargeIn my opinion, Scotland would do just fine as an independent state. Denmark, Norway and Sweden are all small independent states who have relatively stable economies, and none of them have the same revenue Scotland would make from North Sea oil.
Norway's got a bunch of oil.
I don't think Scotland would sink without trace, but I do think it would make Scotland, and indeed the other countries of the union, weaker. One can debate endlessly how much weaker, but it stands to reason that the larger political, military and economic block we are, the stronger we will also be.
Yeah, I know. But Norway's revenue from North Sea oil is not on the same level as Scotland's. Aberdeen is the oil capital of Europe.
I can't see Scotland being weakend by independence, there would be inevitable teething problems, but not in the long run. I can see England being weakend by it however, again largely from the revenue that is created from the oil industry, but also from a military perspective. I think this is reflected by the reluctance to go down the road of independence by Westminster.
Norway is one of the most cash rich countries in the world, nevermind Europe. Norway's revenue from oil is not the same as Scotlands purely because that is what they have decided to do. Unlike Scotland, the Norwegians haven't raped & pillaged their sector of the North Sea, instead they have explored as & when they have wanted to. The Norwegians will be drilling for oil long after us Jocks will. While our money from oil has been used to dig certain governments out of the shit, Norways has been shoved into the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund. LAst time i googled that was when i was working in Norway it was sitting at something rediculous like 3.08 Billion Kr - around 550 billion USD. I wonder how much the current government have in the pot from our oil?
"If you have friends like mine, raise your glasses. If you don't have friends like mine, raise your standards."
Quote by VasqueThe Tories would never be out of office if Scotland left the Union.
Only one labour election victory would have gone the other way with no scottish MPs (1974 election)
Macca - why are you so strongly in favour of independence? Unless Salmond gets exactly what he wants, which is very unlikely, I can't see the economic or political value
Norways Oil revenues are higher but only because it is Government owned and run by StatOil which is the norwegian National Oil company. The problem with North Sea oil revenues is the British Government only get the tax revenues - it has been raped and pillaged by big Corporate Monsters like Shell, BP , Exxon Mobil, Conoco Phillips etc. Most of them not even British.
Well, I tell them there's no problem Only solutions
Why would the rest of the Union allow Scotland to use the £ when a possible struggling new country and economy could affect it's value?
No harm to the rest of us. Scotland wouldn't have the power to increase the money supply, nor change interest rates, both of which would be retained by the Bank of England. There's nothing to stop any country at the moment using another's currency; indeed the US dollar is the de facto currency in many (usually third world) countries. Only problem with doing so is you effectively give over control of monetary policy to another state. This is one of the, economic, problems with the Euro.
If any country should be able to do well financially, it's the Scots! "You'll never see the inside of a Scotsman's wallet", they say. The legendary thrift of the Scotsman is so well known that it's not just a joke. Money management and shrewd business dealings go back for centuries. Historically, it's actually quite amazing that such a small northern country, victims of so much British oppression, should have developed such a superb financial history. The father of modern economics and capitalism, author of the most influential work of economics ever written, was a Scotsman---namely Adam Smith. So the Scots have proved that their ability to manage their own financial affairs and their own country, is well established and needs no interference, thank you!!
Well, I tell them there's no problem Only solutions
Quote by Alex DeLargeIn my opinion, Scotland would do just fine as an independent state. Denmark, Norway and Sweden are all small independent states who have relatively stable economies, and none of them have the same revenue Scotland would make from North Sea oil.
Norway's got a bunch of oil.
I don't think Scotland would sink without trace, but I do think it would make Scotland, and indeed the other countries of the union, weaker. One can debate endlessly how much weaker, but it stands to reason that the larger political, military and economic block we are, the stronger we will also be.
Yeah, I know. But Norway's revenue from North Sea oil is not on the same level as Scotland's. Aberdeen is the oil capital of Europe.
I can't see Scotland being weakend by independence, there would be inevitable teething problems, but not in the long run. I can see England being weakend by it however, again largely from the revenue that is created from the oil industry, but also from a military perspective. I think this is reflected by the reluctance to go down the road of independence by Westminster.
Norway is one of the most cash rich countries in the world, nevermind Europe. Norway's revenue from oil is not the same as Scotlands purely because that is what they have decided to do. Unlike Scotland, the Norwegians haven't raped & pillaged their sector of the North Sea, instead they have explored as & when they have wanted to. The Norwegians will be drilling for oil long after us Jocks will. While our money from oil has been used to dig certain governments out of the shit, Norways has been shoved into the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund. LAst time i googled that was when i was working in Norway it was sitting at something rediculous like 3.08 Billion Kr - around 550 billion USD. I wonder how much the current government have in the pot from our oil?
I spend a lot of time in Norway and do a lot of business there and you are spot on mate.
So the Scots only joined the Union in the first instance because they were pretty much fucked financially. I can see this happening again if they go their own way.
I don't think it'll happen as 'most' Scots want to stay part of the UK but there is part of me that thinks 'fuck it, if you want out go fuck yourselves and let's see how you get on eh?'.
Quote by Alex DeLarge Yeah, I know. But Norway's revenue from North Sea oil is not on the same level as Scotland's. Aberdeen is the oil capital of Europe.
I can't see Scotland being weakend by independence, there would be inevitable teething problems, but not in the long run. I can see England being weakend by it however, again largely from the revenue that is created from the oil industry, but also from a military perspective. I think this is reflected by the reluctance to go down the road of independence by Westminster.
I don't want to get into a 'beggar thy neighbour' type discussion that, regrettably, seems to plague the independence debate...but....I think Scotland has far more to lose from a military perspective. Not least an independent nuclear deterrent. Whilst the base may be in Faslane, there's no way on earth Westminster would gift an independent Scotland a Trident sub or two.
Norway's oil is controlled almost purely by the state. Completely different from the situation here. Overall revenue made in Scotland from North Sea oil far exceeds that of Norway. The number of times the UK government has used this cash to save the economy can vouch for this.
Currently, the naval base at Faslane provides a home for Britain’s four Trident submarines - the UK’s sole nuclear deterrent - while Coulport on Loch Long is home to their warheads and missiles. I don't think Scotland has a lot to lose from a military perspective considering SNP policy, come independence, is to remove the weapons from Scottish territory, saying it does not want Scotland to be home to such weapons of mass destruction. However, nowhere else in the UK is suitable to house both the submarines and missiles at a realistic cost. It is also likely that both Labour and the Lib Dems would come out to oppose the vast cost of replacing the weapons system, meaning no more trident.
Quote by Fat HeadSo the Scots only joined the Union in the first instance because they were pretty much fucked financially. I can see this happening again if they go their own way.
I don't think it'll happen as 'most' Scots want to stay part of the UK but there is part of me that thinks 'fuck it, if you want out go fuck yourselves and let's see how you get on eh?'.
I'm not that clued up in terms of history, but I always thought Scotland's Union with England was driven by a fear among Protestants that the Catholic Stuarts would succeed in reinstating an absolute monarch on the Scots throne and the English agreed to protect the independence of the Protestant Church of Scotland under the constitution.
Quote by Fat HeadSo the Scots only joined the Union in the first instance because they were pretty much fucked financially. I can see this happening again if they go their own way.
I don't think it'll happen as 'most' Scots want to stay part of the UK but there is part of me that thinks 'fuck it, if you want out go fuck yourselves and let's see how you get on eh?'.
I'm not that clued up in terms of history, but I always thought Scotland's Union with England was driven by a fear among Protestants that the Catholic Stuarts would succeed in reinstating an absolute monarch on the Scots throne and the English agreed to protect the independence of the Protestant Church of Scotland under the constitution.
The Scots formally joined the Union in 1707 for financial reasons mate. They were fucked financially and the English allegedly 'bribed' those empowered to vote.
Deffo a no vote from me,for a start what currency would we use ??Euro doubt it,Sterling then just how independent are we ?? proud to be Scottish equally proud to be part of the Union......!
We only have 1 elected Tory in the whole of Scotland how is it fare that they run Scotland when only one of their MPs got elected here ? Theirs a lot of myths dreamt up by the loyalists about what would happen if Scotland became independent and once you see by those theirs no reason why you would vote no
I don't agree with a lot of the SNPs policies but you've got to remember voting for independence is not a vote for the SNP it is just the start of something great and I'm sure once we achieve independence then we will see new parties formed who really do represent and fight for the Scottish people and what they believe in and this can only be good for our country as at last we would have a true democracy. I used to vote labour but they have lost their roots and labour in London are now so similar to the Tories that either way whoever wins the general election I and most scots don't feel their represented fairly hence why the SNP had the landslide victory in the last Scottish elections.
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Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:02 pm
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