Seeing as it looks as though there'll be a referendum on Scotland's independence in the next 1/2 years and seeing as there are lads of all political persuasions on here I thought I'd be interesting to hear what you think about Scotland going solo. For me personally this would be an absolute disaster. Some people like to define themselves as English/Scottish etc but I've always seen myself as proudly British owing it a heritage shared throughout the island of Great Britain. If Scotland left and the Union collapsed I really would feel as though my country had been torn apart. For this reason I'm wary of any decision regarding Scottish independence being made in Edinburgh alone. In any divorce both parties are given equal say (theoretically) and currently I really don't think this has been the case. At the moment Alex Salmond seems to be playing a blinder by highlighting Cameron's tory credentials which will always be unpopular in Scotland but he doesn't seem willing to take enough responsibility especially regarding debt. Last night he suggested that Scotland should take 8/9% of British debt should it become independent despite the fact that RBS is perhaps the countries greatest liability and he personally was in favour of Goodwin's measures which led to its collapse. I'm also really concerned that the SNP seem to think that once they leave the Union Scotland will simply be able to survive alone even though it won't be a member of the EU, it currently relies on British infrastructure and the Euro - which the SNP have fallen reasonably silent on in recent years - is an absolute basket case of a currency.
I think what's surprised me most is how the ongoing debate is bringing out the worse in little englander tendencies down here and wee man tendencies up there. Papers like the Daily Mail are turning any debate into meaningless sabre rattling based on gross national stereotypes. In my eyes at least Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Island have a shared history but mutual identities which is what gives the United Kingdom it's greatest strength. Without this political and economic union I really fear our great country would become four pretty mediocre ones without a history and with a new sense of resentment towards one another.
Is there any way to do a poll on here? Be interested to see how Off Handers see things...
It would be a disaster, you only have to look at places like Africa where the different tribes can't communicate without burying a hatchet in someones head! Can you imagine the clans being let loose !
Can anyone explain to me why the Scots are so anti Tory?
I ask as I've spent a lot of time in Glasgow over the last year or so and have got to know plenty of people very well and almost to a man/woman they hold very 'Tory' views and values.
About 15 years ago the Faroe Islands threatened Denmark with independence. Our then prime minister Poul Nyrup Rasmussen then replied back to the Faroes that if they wanted independence they could have it the following day, no questions asked.
All they had to do was to stand in the danish parliment and hand in a temporary constitution and viola then they would be independent. Then he continued saying that what they needed to be aware of was that as soon as they had claimed independence all financial help from Denmark would ciese to exist immidiatly and no help would be given at all even to faroes currently living in Denmark.
That made them rethink their plan and its currently still under consideration
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
Quote by sauzee88...doesn't seem willing to take enough responsibility especially regarding debt. Last night he suggested that Scotland should take 8/9% of British debt should it become independent despite the fact that RBS is perhaps the countries greatest liability and he personally was in favour of Goodwin's measures which led to its collapse.
Quote by RhysWill never happen. None of the 'Celtic' nations would survive as we don't have the resources.
If Scotland takes 90% of UK oil as Salmond is proposing and invests its parachute payment into renewables then Scotland would theoretically become the 6th richest nation per capita in Europe. I think Scotland's reliance on the State for jobs and to prop up its industries would probably be a bigger problem in the immediacy.
Re: scotland and the tories. The 80s have a lot to answer for, not least the massive cuts to Scottish industry and plans to introduce the poll tax to scotland before england.
I don't know why i don't have any interest in this subject at all. I haven't even read a column in a newspaper about it. Probably quite ignorant that i don't have any interest but i guess its a case of 'i'm alright Jack' at the moment & when it starts to affect me i'll look into it.
"If you have friends like mine, raise your glasses. If you don't have friends like mine, raise your standards."
Quote by Fat HeadCan anyone explain to me why the Scots are so anti Tory?
I ask as I've spent a lot of time in Glasgow over the last year or so and have got to know plenty of people very well and almost to a man/woman they hold very 'Tory' views and values.
It's not just the Scots - most people north of Watford gap are anti Tory and with good reason. I despise them - and it's nothing to do with being Irish (I love Britain, working class British people etc ) but by fuck I hate the Tory Party and will have a party when that bitch Thatcher finally pops her clogs.
I'm English, and define myself as such. However, independence for Scotland would make ALL the countries of the union poorer and less powerful, including Scotland itself. We, the UK that is, are a small country on the edge of Western Europe. Whilst we may have a glorious history, if we think we can make our way in the world without the economic, political and military help of others we are kidding ourselves. So, at such a time, to seek to diminish the power of the UK would be foolish. Indeed, given the common cultural, linguistic and economic ties that we all share, why on earth seek to weaken those and leave us to find support from countries with which we are far less compatable.
There is a lot of jingoistic nonsense talked from both sides of the border, which doesn't help matters frankly, and only serves to drive a wedge between us. For me the bottom line is: will independence make Scotland, or indeed England, more, or less, wealthy and powerful. In my view it can only lead to the latter.
In my opinion, Scotland would do just fine as an independent state. Denmark, Norway and Sweden are all small independent states who have relatively stable economies, and none of them have the same revenue Scotland would make from North Sea oil.
Quote by Alex DeLargeIn my opinion, Scotland would do just fine as an independent state. Denmark, Norway and Sweden are all small independent states who have relatively stable economies, and none of them have the same revenue Scotland would make from North Sea oil.
Norway's got a bunch of oil.
I don't think Scotland would sink without trace, but I do think it would make Scotland, and indeed the other countries of the union, weaker. One can debate endlessly how much weaker, but it stands to reason that the larger political, military and economic block we are, the stronger we will also be.
Have no problem but the way I read it there are three option No Yes and a third is more say or representation, Personally the third for me is an option I would not give it seems to me its a free ticket to take the p.ss. Either in or out, personally I would prefer us to stay as one but if Scotland want out then fair play to them and good luck.
Quote by Fat HeadCan anyone explain to me why the Scots are so anti Tory?
I ask as I've spent a lot of time in Glasgow over the last year or so and have got to know plenty of people very well and almost to a man/woman they hold very 'Tory' views and values.
In a nutshell, most have never forgiven The Iron Lady for closing down the pits, and quite simply never will. Not enough water under the bridge so to speak.
There was a joke going around recently that Scotland has more Pandas than Conservative MPs.
Incidentally, I vote conservative, and look to continue doing so. I don't want this independence polava (as per braveheart). I firmly believe we are stronger as part of the Union.
Quote by Alex DeLargeIn my opinion, Scotland would do just fine as an independent state. Denmark, Norway and Sweden are all small independent states who have relatively stable economies, and none of them have the same revenue Scotland would make from North Sea oil.
Norway's got a bunch of oil.
I don't think Scotland would sink without trace, but I do think it would make Scotland, and indeed the other countries of the union, weaker. One can debate endlessly how much weaker, but it stands to reason that the larger political, military and economic block we are, the stronger we will also be.
Yeah, I know. But Norway's revenue from North Sea oil is not on the same level as Scotland's. Aberdeen is the oil capital of Europe.
I can't see Scotland being weakend by independence, there would be inevitable teething problems, but not in the long run. I can see England being weakend by it however, again largely from the revenue that is created from the oil industry, but also from a military perspective. I think this is reflected by the reluctance to go down the road of independence by Westminster.
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Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:57 am
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