Depends on what scale major wise the agent will negotiate fee and there will be set prices ie tickets, everything is accounted for associated like merchandise. The venues for established bands like O2 etc just rely soley on the revenue from fans with drinks and whatever else. Lesser known bands have to put themselves out but the same principle sometimes even paying to play or if can guarantee bums on seats will get a small payment. Its hard graft for most bands in the early days of their career and shows why most dont make it. Although got a lot easier with independents and shite music
Quote: OFFHand wrote in post #2Depends on what scale major wise the agent will negotiate fee and there will be set prices ie tickets, everything is accounted for associated like merchandise. The venues for established bands like O2 etc just rely soley on the revenue from fans with drinks and whatever else. Lesser known bands have to put themselves out but the same principle sometimes even paying to play or if can guarantee bums on seats will get a small payment. Its hard graft for most bands in the early days of their career and shows why most dont make it. Although got a lot easier with independents and shite music
I was thinking, say a band tours a 10 night tour playing to an average of 2,000 per night paying £12 quid a pop, £240,000.....Then surely the expenses would be quite high ? call it £150k after expenses and paying everyone, then the management would take a cut ? Hardly rock and roll is it between 5 of you ? I'm guessing the only people that are milking it these days are the very big bands ?
Only reason i asked as i was just being nosey on facebook and i noticed that the guitar player from the twang was working on an agency in the summer....They had a no. 3 album in 2007 and played some big gigs.....clearly not enough to retire off ....mind you, you never know he could be mortgage free or he could of spunked the lot !!
The twang played at a community center in the small Derbyshire town where I live last year to about 150 people, defiantly made some bad financial choices somewhere along the line.
Quote: Horse & Hound wrote in post #4The twang played at a community center in the small Derbyshire town where I live last year to about 150 people, defiantly made some bad financial choices somewhere along the line.
Quote: Horse & Hound wrote in post #4The twang played at a community center in the small Derbyshire town where I live last year to about 150 people, defiantly made some bad financial choices somewhere along the line.
Its funny really, many bands have huge home town fanbase but the twang it would seem are fairly reliant upon theirs....
For example, they played the fiddlers in bristol (450 capacity) in november time and then in december packed out the o2 in brum, about 3k capacity !!
Got to agree about the bad financial decisions, it was all a bit of a whirlwhind in 2007, they left their jobs and a few weeks later were on the front of the NME so they have said. I suppose only them and their management will ever know how much they have pocketed each over the years !!
Its all relative and works for both parties hence the use of agents, managers, A massive band would not usually pay for the venue, Say Oasis as the whole promotion and bandwagon of using venue and spin off's pays well and raises the profile of venue, Surprising of the knock on effect a big band will have and attract other bands, You can't really look at venues like O2 or similar as they dont need to make money like other independent venues, sponsors play a big part too. Smaller venues like the Twang and clubs used will take a percentage and likewise, like they say unless you crack America you dont really make millions in music. Look at the Mondays for bad management and rip offs with agents etc. Thats why music is so much about passion and not making money. If money is your motive you soon compromise yourself, Most of the successful bands over time never set out to make money, they tend to just want to perform.
Quote: OFFHand wrote in post #9Its all relative and works for both parties hence the use of agents, managers, A massive band would not usually pay for the venue, Say Oasis as the whole promotion and bandwagon of using venue and spin off's pays well and raises the profile of venue, Surprising of the knock on effect a big band will have and attract other bands, You can't really look at venues like O2 or similar as they dont need to make money like other independent venues, sponsors play a big part too. Smaller venues like the Twang and clubs used will take a percentage and likewise, like they say unless you crack America you dont really make millions in music. Look at the Mondays for bad management and rip offs with agents etc. Thats why music is so much about passion and not making money. If money is your motive you soon compromise yourself, Most of the successful bands over time never set out to make money, they tend to just want to perform.
But just imagine if you've spent fucking hours writing/recording etc a record for people to just illegally download it with a few clicks of a mouse, surely thats when the money aspect of it comes in to play, but then again, its a very modern issue as such.
I know what your saying but coming from a creative aspect myself, I put hours into Djing say and thats is not really a financial benefit to me or i don't want to be the next Tiesto, but the sheer reward from just playing to an audience after all those hours beats any amount of money. These people do not set out and think shit what if we get ripped off with illegal downloads. Another way is of its getting illegally downloaded then you must have made some success in music and its a small percentage of the market. Be pleasantly surprised how many people would touch an illegal download and prefer to buy so it does outweigh the underbelly of music. They would even use it as a form of marketing themselves to offer free music which in turn raises profile of musicians. what is has done is allow music been more accessible to create more bands and choice, diluting the talent or making it harder to surface, and this in turn makes those work harder for what they want. but a fast buck is very short lived in any industry.
i used to know a lad who booked bands for a club in sheffeild, most touring bands would have a set cost and rider, he then had to decide on a ticket price that would cover costs but also not be too over priced. a few freinds still put small punk and hardcore gigs on its pretty similar for them too, seen a mate have to walk to the cash point and cover a shortfall from his own personal account once. bands should be happy people want to listen to there music never mind buy it or watch em play, they should see themselves as priveledged if they can make it pay and not have to work day in day out a job they dont like and not moan about illegal downloads.
Quote: Getkettleon wrote in post #12 bands should be happy people want to listen to there music never mind buy it or watch em play, they should see themselves as priveledged if they can make it pay and not have to work day in day out a job they dont like and not moan about illegal downloads.
So having spent hours in the studio and rolled up debts through an advance they should just give their efforts away?
When I was playing in a band we used to get paid with some free drinks. We were always smoked a joint or 2 before hitting the stage. We.did it for the fun of it and love of playing..
When I was playing in a band we used to get paid with some free drinks. We were always smoked a joint or 2 before hitting the stage. We.did it for the fun of it and love of playing..
We used to play for booze. But as I was the drummer I was normally driving, so after petrol was usually down on the night
Quote: Horse & Hound wrote in post #4The twang played at a community center in the small Derbyshire town where I live last year to about 150 people, defiantly made some bad financial choices somewhere along the line.
First bad choice: Not learning how to play musical instruments
Quote: Getkettleon wrote in post #12 bands should be happy people want to listen to there music never mind buy it or watch em play, they should see themselves as priveledged if they can make it pay and not have to work day in day out a job they dont like and not moan about illegal downloads.
So having spent hours in the studio and rolled up debts through an advance they should just give their efforts away?
Mental.
I never said they should give it away. Ive been on the wrong side of illegal download market thousands outta pocket from a record shop struggled to compete. but its not new and not going away so no point moaning about it. Gigging is were they get paid now. People spunk tonnes of time and money into there hobbys for personal reward, hows being in a band different? Your lucky when you can make your hobby a job. An if it doesnt work its just another failed business yet they will have had more fun and got their dick wet alot more than the bloke from the other failed business stood next to em in the dole que
I read an article in the nme a couple of years back in that the twang basicly spent all the money their record company made out of the kaiser chiefs on making their second album (jewellary quarter?) so I've think they've had some fun!. Seen them a couple of times in norwich good live outfit with decent live following.
Be careful what you dream of it may come up and surprise you.
Quote: rampo wrote in post #19I read an article in the nme a couple of years back in that the twang basicly spent all the money their record company made out of the kaiser chiefs on making their second album (jewellary quarter?) so I've think they've had some fun!. Seen them a couple of times in norwich good live outfit with decent live following.
Do you still have that ? any chance you could tell me which issue it was ? There is a photo of the article on their facebook page, the headline was something like "You know all the money that the kaiser cheifs made ? Meet the man that pissed it all away" Made me laugh as i fucking hate the kaiser cheifs !! Seen them live and thought they were crap !! Plenty of people like em though !!
When making jewellry quarter they recorded one, then the label said 'you can do better than that' so they wrote and recorded another...something like that anyway !! A long winded expensive process i bet !!
Good article went and saw dodgy last week on an arts centre tour, chatted to them selling there own merch. After the gig and they basicly said how hard it was making money but that there's worse things in life then being on tour with your mates in your forties and having a few beers and a laugh they said the important bit on download and cd sales is getting on the festival circuit in the summer where you can get in front of a lot of people.
Be careful what you dream of it may come up and surprise you.
OFF HAND
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Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:01 pm
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....mind you, you never know he could be mortgage free or he could of spunked the lot !!
