That video is fucking painful to watch/listen to. I've turned it off. From what I saw I'm not sure why you're saying the second goal is Johnson's fault though? Care to explain?
Quote by SpenceI think Terry is a huge cunt but i'd much rather have him in my team over Carra, Ferdinand and Upson.
I'd have him over Carragher and Upson too. But you're missing the point completely. Someone claimed that Terry was the best central defender in the mid 2000s. He wasn't.
Quote by SpenceI think Terry is a huge cunt but i'd much rather have him in my team over Carra, Ferdinand and Upson.
I'd have him over Carragher and Upson too. But you're missing the point completely. Someone claimed that Terry was the best central defender in the mid 2000s. He wasn't.
I don't think he was, but then again he was the best English one.
Quote by SpenceI think Terry is a huge cunt but i'd much rather have him in my team over Carra, Ferdinand and Upson.
I'd have him over Carragher and Upson too. But you're missing the point completely. Someone claimed that Terry was the best central defender in the mid 2000s. He wasn't.
I claimed it. In 2005. Supported by virtue of U EFA naming him Defender of the Year in Europe (where all the best players play....) Your view that he wasn't is supported by....er.....who?.......
"The nightmares invading the sleep of Bayern fans involve four horsemen of the Champions League Apocalypse riding towards them. As the faces come into focus, they will recognise Frank Lampard, Cole, Petr Cech and Drogba. All were immense..."
PFA Player of the Year: 2004–05 FIFA World Cup Team of the Tournament: 2006 FIFPro World XI: 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 UEFA Club Football Awards Best Defender: 2005, 2008, 2009 UEFA Team of the Year: 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009
"The nightmares invading the sleep of Bayern fans involve four horsemen of the Champions League Apocalypse riding towards them. As the faces come into focus, they will recognise Frank Lampard, Cole, Petr Cech and Drogba. All were immense..."
Quote by SpenceI think Terry is a huge cunt but i'd much rather have him in my team over Carra, Ferdinand and Upson.
I'd have him over Carragher and Upson too. But you're missing the point completely. Someone claimed that Terry was the best central defender in the mid 2000s. He wasn't.
I claimed it. In 2005. Supported by virtue of U EFA naming him Defender of the Year in Europe (where all the best players play....) Your view that he wasn't is supported by....er.....who?.......
By his shit performances against good opposition when not surrounded by players of the calibre of Carvalho and Makelele.
Quote by RamseesCFCJohn Terry: Being Criminally Overrated Since 1998
PFA Player of the Year: 2004–05 FIFA World Cup Team of the Tournament: 2006 FIFPro World XI: 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 UEFA Club Football Awards Best Defender: 2005, 2008, 2009 UEFA Team of the Year: 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009
You're missing the point. He won these awards as he was a part of a very successful Chelsea side where he was afforded protection from Claude Makelele, one of the best defensive midfielders of all time, and by Ricardo Carvalho's excellent reading of the game. These covered up his frailties. Frailties which have been exposed at World Cups and European Championships where he did not have a midfield which offered him significant protection.
Are you seriously suggesting that Terry was a better player than Cannavaro or Nesta?
Quote by SpenceI think Terry is a huge cunt but i'd much rather have him in my team over Carra, Ferdinand and Upson.
I'd have him over Carragher and Upson too. But you're missing the point completely. Someone claimed that Terry was the best central defender in the mid 2000s. He wasn't.
I claimed it. In 2005. Supported by virtue of U EFA naming him Defender of the Year in Europe (where all the best players play....) Your view that he wasn't is supported by....er.....who?.......
By his shit performances against good opposition when not surrounded by players of the calibre of Carvalho and Makelele.
seriously mate, stop it. You're looking silly. You're just bitter and twisted. And now you're telling me all his honours were by virtue of the performances of others? So, UEFA, FifaPro, etc....all mistakenly voted him because they couldn't see it was really Makelele and Carvalho who did all the great work? seriously, log out and have a long lie down
"The nightmares invading the sleep of Bayern fans involve four horsemen of the Champions League Apocalypse riding towards them. As the faces come into focus, they will recognise Frank Lampard, Cole, Petr Cech and Drogba. All were immense..."
Quote by RamseesCFCJohn Terry: Being Criminally Overrated Since 1998
PFA Player of the Year: 2004–05 FIFA World Cup Team of the Tournament: 2006 FIFPro World XI: 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 UEFA Club Football Awards Best Defender: 2005, 2008, 2009 UEFA Team of the Year: 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009
You're missing the point. He won these awards as he was a part of a very successful Chelsea side where he was afforded protection from Claude Makelele, one of the best defensive midfielders of all time, and by Ricardo Carvalho's excellent reading of the game. These covered up his frailties. Frailties which have been exposed at World Cups and European Championships where he did not have a midfield which offered him significant protection.
Are you seriously suggesting that Terry was a better player than Cannavaro or Nesta?
in 2005, yes. You're opinion may differ. I've supported my view with evidence. Hard evidence. Not opinion, hearsay, speculation, etc...but FACT.
but what I'm really suggesting, nay, stating is that to be "criminally overrated", you're taking basically every organisation, player associations, etc...that voted JT in the various awards he's received and said they more or less, can't judge a player. So, are you seriously saying they're all wrong???????
Edit - by the way, he played most of 2004-2005 with Gallas as his partner, not Carvalho. just for the record....
"The nightmares invading the sleep of Bayern fans involve four horsemen of the Champions League Apocalypse riding towards them. As the faces come into focus, they will recognise Frank Lampard, Cole, Petr Cech and Drogba. All were immense..."
Quote by SpenceI think Terry is a huge cunt but i'd much rather have him in my team over Carra, Ferdinand and Upson.
I'd have him over Carragher and Upson too. But you're missing the point completely. Someone claimed that Terry was the best central defender in the mid 2000s. He wasn't.
I claimed it. In 2005. Supported by virtue of U EFA naming him Defender of the Year in Europe (where all the best players play....) Your view that he wasn't is supported by....er.....who?.......
By his shit performances against good opposition when not surrounded by players of the calibre of Carvalho and Makelele.
seriously mate, stop it. You're looking silly. You're just bitter and twisted. And now you're telling me all his honours were by virtue of the performances of others? So, UEFA, FifaPro, etc....all mistakenly voted him because they couldn't see it was really Makelele and Carvalho who did all the great work? seriously, log out and have a long lie down
To a large extent, yes. He was made to look much better than he actually was because he was put in a system which suited him and surrounded by players who ensured that his weaknesses were not exposed. Why has he been continually shit on the international stage?
Quote by RamseesCFCJohn Terry: Being Criminally Overrated Since 1998
PFA Player of the Year: 2004–05 FIFA World Cup Team of the Tournament: 2006 FIFPro World XI: 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 UEFA Club Football Awards Best Defender: 2005, 2008, 2009 UEFA Team of the Year: 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009
You're missing the point. He won these awards as he was a part of a very successful Chelsea side where he was afforded protection from Claude Makelele, one of the best defensive midfielders of all time, and by Ricardo Carvalho's excellent reading of the game. These covered up his frailties. Frailties which have been exposed at World Cups and European Championships where he did not have a midfield which offered him significant protection.
Are you seriously suggesting that Terry was a better player than Cannavaro or Nesta?
in 2005, yes. You're opinion may differ. I've supported my view with evidence. Hard evidence. Not opinion, hearsay, speculation, etc...but FACT.
but what I'm really suggesting, nay, stating is that to be "criminally overrated", you're taking basically every organisation, player associations, etc...that voted JT in the various awards he's received and said they more or less, can't judge a player. So, are you seriously saying they're all wrong???????
Edit - by the way, he played most of 2004-2005 with Gallas as his partner, not Carvalho. just for the record....
You've not supported anything with "FACT" though, have you? You've googled a list of awards that John Terry received (most of them with Carvalho by his side). These awards are voted by a committee of people and I disagree with who they gave the award too.
Kramer vs. Kramer got an Oscar ahead of Apocalypse Now. Does that mean that it's a "FACT" that it's a better film? Of course it doesn't. It's subjective, just like it's subjective as to whether John Terry is or isn't overrated. You're trying to dress up opinion as fact, you can't.
Quote by Jimmy JazzThat video is fucking painful to watch/listen to. I've turned it off. From what I saw I'm not sure why you're saying the second goal is Johnson's fault though? Care to explain?
Johnson is a right back , he rushes in from the right and leaves a gaping hole for the German to score as the ball gets easily played to the right .. But as a fine connisseur of defenders such as your good self I'm suprised you failed to notice that ..
I appreciate your point on other defenders , and accept you are more than welcome to rate players better than JT - but I watch / watched him play close up at the ground , and perhaps see him in a different light because of that .. As you mentioned Puyol / Nesta / Maldini - I take it you have based your assumption on watching them on a regular basis - or snippets from youtube .. ??
Nah, YouTube could make me look like the world's greatest defender (it couldn't really). I'm a bit of a football geek to be honest. If it's on I'll watch it so I tend to watch a lot of Spanish, Italian and German football when it's on TV so while I don't see these guys as often as I do John Terry, I've seen them a fair amount of times. And they've looked better, in my opinion anyway.
Quote by RamseesCFCJohn Terry: Being Criminally Overrated Since 1998
PFA Player of the Year: 2004–05 FIFA World Cup Team of the Tournament: 2006 FIFPro World XI: 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 UEFA Club Football Awards Best Defender: 2005, 2008, 2009 UEFA Team of the Year: 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009
You're missing the point. He won these awards as he was a part of a very successful Chelsea side where he was afforded protection from Claude Makelele, one of the best defensive midfielders of all time, and by Ricardo Carvalho's excellent reading of the game. These covered up his frailties. Frailties which have been exposed at World Cups and European Championships where he did not have a midfield which offered him significant protection.
Are you seriously suggesting that Terry was a better player than Cannavaro or Nesta?
in 2005, yes. You're opinion may differ. I've supported my view with evidence. Hard evidence. Not opinion, hearsay, speculation, etc...but FACT.
but what I'm really suggesting, nay, stating is that to be "criminally overrated", you're taking basically every organisation, player associations, etc...that voted JT in the various awards he's received and said they more or less, can't judge a player. So, are you seriously saying they're all wrong???????
Edit - by the way, he played most of 2004-2005 with Gallas as his partner, not Carvalho. just for the record....
You've not supported anything with "FACT" though, have you? You've googled a list of awards that John Terry received (most of them with Carvalho by his side). These awards are voted by a committee of people and I disagree with who they gave the award too.
Kramer vs. Kramer got an Oscar ahead of Apocalypse Now. Does that mean that it's a "FACT" that it's a better film? Of course it doesn't. It's subjective, just like it's subjective as to whether John Terry is or isn't overrated. You're trying to dress up opinion as fact, you can't.
It's a FACT that he's been given the awards. Many of the awards are the opinions of people whose profession is in football - players, coaches and the like. They make a living playing and watching football and it's their job to know players, teams, how they play, tactics they use, etc... The European governing body, UEFA, said John Terry was the best defender in their opinion in 2005.
Now, that's not my opinion above. That's FACT. Agree?
Now you're opposing view is based on the premise that he's only looked good because actually, it's because of Carvalho. where's your evidence then? So, for example, the PFA Player of the Year Award he won in 2005, as voted for by his peers, those people voting for him couldn't see the fact Carvalho was carrying him? Fellow players? You see, I've a hell of a lot more knowledgeable people supporting my view of John Terry than you do of yours. You expect me to listen to your opinion when offered no stats to support it, no evidence to support it. You're basically saying half the football fraternity is wrong in their assessment of JohnTerrys ability - people who play the game, live it 24/7, know the game inside out? They can't see when someone is being carried by a colleague?
"The nightmares invading the sleep of Bayern fans involve four horsemen of the Champions League Apocalypse riding towards them. As the faces come into focus, they will recognise Frank Lampard, Cole, Petr Cech and Drogba. All were immense..."
How can you say Terry wasn't one of the best center halves in the world?! He was without a shadow of a doubt up their with Cannavaro and Puyol. Put those 3 in order is purely personal preference. All amazing and better than everybody.
Fair enough he isn't as good now, but still better than the rest in the Premiership. If you would rather play someone else at the back for England you are deluded.
I am a neutral to English football so I am not bias what so ever. But I do know if he played for United he would get his arse licked even more than Rooney, Scholes etc.
Quote by jack5How can you say Terry wasn't one of the best center halves in the world?! He was without a shadow of a doubt up their with Cannavaro and Puyol. Put those 3 in order is purely personal preference. All amazing and better than everybody.
I'd put Ferdinand above both Terry and Puyol but that's just me. Nesta was better than Puyol as well.
Quote by jack5How can you say Terry wasn't one of the best center halves in the world?! He was without a shadow of a doubt up their with Cannavaro and Puyol. Put those 3 in order is purely personal preference. All amazing and better than everybody.
Fair enough he isn't as good now, but still better than the rest in the Premiership. If you would rather play someone else at the back for England you are deluded.
I am a neutral to English football so I am not bias what so ever. But I do know if he played for United he would get his arse licked even more than Rooney, Scholes etc.
I even can understand those wanting him replaced at England now or saying he's slow now, etc...etc....I can kind of see an argument there. But to call it "laughable" that he's the best defender in the world in 2005 - after UEFA voted him what is tantamount to their choice as the best, I can't fathom. And as for Criminally overrated? Capello Ancellotti Gus Hiddink Phil Scolari and importantly, Mourinho who could easily have dispensed with him at that time, all feel differently. And that's just those who've managed him nevermind others. Obviously the members of the PFA in 2005 felt him good enough to be player of the year....
"The nightmares invading the sleep of Bayern fans involve four horsemen of the Champions League Apocalypse riding towards them. As the faces come into focus, they will recognise Frank Lampard, Cole, Petr Cech and Drogba. All were immense..."
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Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:34 pm
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So, UEFA, FifaPro, etc....all mistakenly voted him because they couldn't see it was really Makelele and Carvalho who did all the great work? 
seriously, log out and have a long lie down 
