Quote: theherd wrote in post #47I forgot how good it was before maggie Power going off at 4.30 every other day Teachers ,train drivers and miners allways on strike And the best for last 3 months of rotting rubbish in the streets as the dust men were on strike as well oh happy times
Exactly, for those of us old enough to remember those days its a bit of a different story.
Lets face it, she took on the Union fat cats who used the working class of Britain in the 70's to hold the country to ransom as they sat back in their nice houses smoking cigars spouting their socialist rhetoric, and fucking smashed them.
They were as much to blame for the suffering her changes brought as she was.
She smashed those that needed smashing.
Not exactly true. The unions put up a courageous fight and the reason they were defeated is because the Labour Party betrayed them, not because of Thatcher. I'm always slightly puzzled when workers defend the reactionaries.
I find it farcical that the more vocal Anti-Maggie brigade on here either weren't born or were attending nursery when she were in office. I'm old enough to remember the previous government, a government that had the backbone of a damp squid. The unions were running the country, holding the country to ransom with regular strikes by the Miner's, teacher's, binmen and car worker's. Maggie took power on a no-vote of Labour as a last resort, call it a cry of desperation. Britain needed a strong leader and Maggie delivered, big time, she turned us from a country on the verge of imploding to one of the most powerful nations in the world, Reagan and Gorbachev melted at the very mention of her name.
I remember the CHAOS....my mortgage rate went from 6% to 16:5% !!!! Had to sell up cheap before repossession ...lost every penny I'd worked for for ten yrs....at the same time Uniform Business rates came in Trippling the cost, Poll Tax trebled the old rating system.....for some reason the insurance companies rates went 3/5 times highertoo, That was the time I went [after 10years slogg] from owning my own home, run my own small business to NOTHING !!!.... Been a rebel ever since. Oh and NAT WEST, wanted me to pay 25% interest on a £50K loan over 5 years to repay an overdraft facility which was withdrawn by them, with a caveat that should I miss a single payment, that it would reset the amount back to day one ....and that was trying to broker a deal with my accountant in attendance...he couldn't believe the arrogance of them .....the Bankster just sat there like a Cheshire Cat...I sold everything for cash! (Written by someone who also lived in the Thatcher Dictatorship)
[quote=get the beer]I find it farcical that the more vocal Anti-Maggie brigade on here either weren't born or were attending nursery when she were in office.[/quote]
I take it you feel the same way when people celebrate Churchill, despite being born after his death, or express an opinion on Roman history too?
I didn't celerate Thatcher's death (though I did think of family members who never worked again, having been made redundant), but I did balk at some of the rubish being written about her time in office, and the numerous tributed to one of Britain's greatest PMs. I can't help but find it ironic that her stance on Europe is being lauded, even though she signed Britain up to the Single European Act and the ERM. I find it bizarre that he mismanagement of the Falklands Crisis is triumphed as some sort of Churchillian victory. I'm stumped as to why a woman who increased taxes and spending on welfare is heralded as a harbinger of thrift. Finally, I'm amazed that the Tories have managed to whitewash their own party's history and the fact that she was ousted by her cabinet! (This is all without mentioning Hillsborough, Orgreave, East Timor, selling arms to Saddam Hussein, declaring war on entire areas of the country, Nelson Mandela, Pinochet, Rupert Murdoch, squandering the N. Sea oil riches etc etc)
I don't really give a toss about her policies, but I do care about how they're being recorded and interpreted. I'm yet to hear a substantive case for her being recognised as one of Britain's greatest leaders. Yes, she transformed the country, but for the better? I'm not so sure: long-term unemployment, underemployment, depressed wages, deskilled industries, casino capitalism, a massively increased wealth gap, all hallmarks of Thatcher's time in office.
Quote: sauzee88 wrote in post #56[quote=get the beer]I find it farcical that the more vocal Anti-Maggie brigade on here either weren't born or were attending nursery when she were in office.
I take it you feel the same way when people celebrate Churchill, despite being born after his death, or express an opinion on Roman history too?
I didn't celerate Thatcher's death (though I did think of family members who never worked again, having been made redundant), but I did balk at some of the rubish being written about her time in office, and the numerous tributed to one of Britain's greatest PMs. I can't help but find it ironic that her stance on Europe is being lauded, even though she signed Britain up to the Single European Act and the ERM. I find it bizarre that he mismanagement of the Falklands Crisis is triumphed as some sort of Churchillian victory. I'm stumped as to why a woman who increased taxes and spending on welfare is heralded as a harbinger of thrift. Finally, I'm amazed that the Tories have managed to whitewash their own party's history and the fact that she was ousted by her cabinet! (This is all without mentioning Hillsborough, Orgreave, East Timor, selling arms to Saddam Hussein, declaring war on entire areas of the country, Nelson Mandela, Pinochet, Rupert Murdoch, squandering the N. Sea oil riches etc etc)
I don't really give a toss about her policies, but I do care about how they're being recorded and interpreted. I'm yet to hear a substantive case for her being recognised as one of Britain's greatest leaders. Yes, she transformed the country, but for the better? I'm not so sure: long-term unemployment, underemployment, depressed wages, deskilled industries, casino capitalism, a massively increased wealth gap, all hallmarks of Thatcher's time in office. [/quote]
Quote: sauzee88 wrote in post #56[quote=get the beer]I find it farcical that the more vocal Anti-Maggie brigade on here either weren't born or were attending nursery when she were in office.
I take it you feel the same way when people celebrate Churchill, despite being born after his death, or express an opinion on Roman history too?
I didn't celerate Thatcher's death (though I did think of family members who never worked again, having been made redundant), but I did balk at some of the rubish being written about her time in office, and the numerous tributed to one of Britain's greatest PMs. I can't help but find it ironic that her stance on Europe is being lauded, even though she signed Britain up to the Single European Act and the ERM. I find it bizarre that he mismanagement of the Falklands Crisis is triumphed as some sort of Churchillian victory. I'm stumped as to why a woman who increased taxes and spending on welfare is heralded as a harbinger of thrift. Finally, I'm amazed that the Tories have managed to whitewash their own party's history and the fact that she was ousted by her cabinet! (This is all without mentioning Hillsborough, Orgreave, East Timor, selling arms to Saddam Hussein, declaring war on entire areas of the country, Nelson Mandela, Pinochet, Rupert Murdoch, squandering the N. Sea oil riches etc etc)
I don't really give a toss about her policies, but I do care about how they're being recorded and interpreted. I'm yet to hear a substantive case for her being recognised as one of Britain's greatest leaders. Yes, she transformed the country, but for the better? I'm not so sure: long-term unemployment, underemployment, depressed wages, deskilled industries, casino capitalism, a massively increased wealth gap, all hallmarks of Thatcher's time in office. [/quote]
I'm sorry but as I weren't around when Julius Ceaser or Winston Churchill were in office I'm not qualified or experienced enough to give my expert opinion. I did however start work during Maggies term of office and seeing the hardships of my parents during the 'old' labour years I feel I can give a less one eyed view than most.
As for your last paragraph, did we do any better under 'new' labour, a political party that had to re-invent itself due to their failings of its previous leaderships?!?!?!?!?!
Quote: get the beer in wrote in post #58 I'm sorry but as I weren't around when Julius Ceaser or Winston Churchill were in office I'm not qualified or experienced enough to give my expert opinion. I did however start work during Maggies term of office and seeing the hardships of my parents during the 'old' labour years I feel I can give a less one eyed view than most.
As for your last paragraph, did we do any better under 'new' labour, a political party that had to re-invent itself due to their failings of its previous leaderships?!?!?!?!?!
I've little to no time for New Labour mate. Blair and Mandelson are particularly culpable in the moral and intellectual failures of that project. They just carried on Thatcher's project to liberalise markets and drive down wages.
You don't need to have lived through that period to understand it, you can still understand history, and a lot better than some of the morons who were there at the time.
Quote: get the beer in wrote in post #54I find it farcical that the more vocal Anti-Maggie brigade on here either weren't born or were attending nursery when she were in office. I'm old enough to remember the previous government, a government that had the backbone of a damp squid. The unions were running the country, holding the country to ransom with regular strikes by the Miner's, teacher's, binmen and car worker's. Maggie took power on a no-vote of Labour as a last resort, call it a cry of desperation. Britain needed a strong leader and Maggie delivered, big time, she turned us from a country on the verge of imploding to one of the most powerful nations in the world, Reagan and Gorbachev melted at the very mention of her name.
I too remember those times and I was one of the very fortunate ones who left school in 1982 and managed to secure an apprenticeship in Crewe Works. But I also remember the majority who were put on the scrapheap and left to rot while the rich got tax breaks. I also remember that Thatcher was on the verge of being dumped after her first term by the nation until the Falklands war saved her, that and the North Sea oil money that was squandered away and all the family silver sold. We are now a nation with no manufacturing base and rely on coal from Russia and Colombia to run our power stations. Changes were indeed needed back then but the way she went about it by destroying communities and not giving a fuck about who got hurt in the process was criminal. She certainly got a huge part of the nation to only 'think of number one', a way of thinking that is now common place in Britain.
Well put Sauzee. There's many strands to weighing up her time as PM and we all have different recollections of it depending on how it affected us, our areas, what we think is important etc. I remember the lights going out and the 3 day week, eating your tea with candles to light the room (not in a romantic mood way either !) and the way things were then look absolutely ridiculous now and had to change. But, she was governing the country, not one part of it or for one section of society. It never made sense to me at the time about the steel and pit closures and I can't help thinking that was the start of 'Benefit Culture' which appears to be the biggest issue now. And before anyone mentions Tebbit and 'on your bike' what if you can't move. Because of her policies we went from a country that used to produce things to a service economy. Where has that lead, an 'apprenticeship' in Costa Coffee ?
Council housing sale biggest con in history. Great for the individual (you'd have been mad to not take up the offer), but good for the country ? Was it fuck. A bribe for votes.
I'm glad we got the Falklands back for the sole reason that the people who are they are British, but the conflict suited her politically. The Argies had rattled the sabre in 1979 and we sent a force down to warn them off. In 82 we could have done the same before the invasion (which didn't come completely out of the blue).
She brought in US-style politics and spin in that how you said it were more important than what you said and changed British culture to put the emphasis on greed. I find it strange that she's seen as 'economically sound' when the boom and bust cycle was like the 20s and 30s and huge areas of the country were fucked over with nothing to replace it
Got to say guys one of the best threads for ages this one, views clearly dependent on age, personal impact of the period, impact on our communities and political standpoint. Personally my folks got to buy their council house (something they'd never have managed otherwise), but my hometown lost its Shipbuilding / manufacturing businesses and its Fishing fleet (EU Quotas etc) and has never recovered from it to be the most deprived area in East Anglia (i think). Can also remember paying a fixed 13.5% on my first mortgage (although the house was £40k),!
Be careful what you dream of it may come up and surprise you.
Quote: get the beer in wrote in post #58 I'm sorry but as I weren't around when Julius Ceaser or Winston Churchill were in office I'm not qualified or experienced enough to give my expert opinion. I did however start work during Maggies term of office and seeing the hardships of my parents during the 'old' labour years I feel I can give a less one eyed view than most.
As for your last paragraph, did we do any better under 'new' labour, a political party that had to re-invent itself due to their failings of its previous leaderships?!?!?!?!?!
I've little to no time for New Labour mate. Blair and Mandelson are particularly culpable in the moral and intellectual failures of that project. They just carried on Thatcher's project to liberalise markets and drive down wages.
Quote: nothavinit wrote in post #61You don't need to have lived through that period to understand it, you can still understand history, and a lot better than some of the morons who were there at the time.
This has to be one of, if not, the most crass post in the history of offhand!
Quote: nothavinit wrote in post #61You don't need to have lived through that period to understand it, you can still understand history, and a lot better than some of the morons who were there at the time.
This has to be one of, if not, the most crass post in the history of offhand!
For all them that didn't grow up in the 70's you have no idea what it was like before she came to power. She will always be a hero to many. I was brought up in a council house, but because of what see did my old man brought his own home, brought shares in British gas,b.t and others. Started his own company worked hard and retired at 50 To live his days in the sun .
Eye's right, skin back tight, bollocks to the front, we're the boy's who make more noise when we're on the cunt, we're the riders of the night, and we'd rather fuck than fight, we're the riders of the Clock end Highbury
Quote: nothavinit wrote in post #61You don't need to have lived through that period to understand it, you can still understand history, and a lot better than some of the morons who were there at the time.
This has to be one of, if not, the most crass post in the history of offhand!
Crass because it's true? Living in an era doesn't mean you understand it. You need to look beneath the surface at the underlying contradictions and forces etc to really understand what is going on in society. One can study history to understand it.
Thatcher destructed manufacturing, condemned millions to unemployment, was complicit in covering up the Hillsborough disaster and treated football fans like scum. I know many members on here are football fans, praising her is CRASS! Working people fighting for their right to work and a living wage deserve 'smashing'? Now that's CRASS!
Quote: nothavinit wrote in post #61You don't need to have lived through that period to understand it, you can still understand history, and a lot better than some of the morons who were there at the time.
This has to be one of, if not, the most crass post in the history of offhand!
Crass because it's true? Living in an era doesn't mean you understand it. You need to look beneath the surface at the underlying contradictions and forces etc to really understand what is going on in society. One can study history to understand it.
Thatcher destructed manufacturing, condemned millions to unemployment, was complicit in covering up the Hillsborough disaster and treated football fans like scum. I know many members on here are football fans, praising her is CRASS! Working people fighting for their right to work and a living wage deserve 'smashing'? Now that's CRASS!
And Thatcher did all that on her lonesome!
You need to step down off your soapbox and look at the bigger picture. Back in the day Britain needed to change, unions were ruining/running the country we needed a strong leader, enter Maggie. If Thatcher and her mob were so wrong why didn't Bliar and his cronies put it back to how it was 'in the good old days'
Quote: nothavinit wrote in post #61You don't need to have lived through that period to understand it, you can still understand history, and a lot better than some of the morons who were there at the time.
This has to be one of, if not, the most crass post in the history of offhand!
For all them that didn't grow up in the 70's you have no idea what it was like before she came to power.
Yep, because no studies of the 70s have been produced since!
By your argument it should just be accepted that Jim Callaghan was weak on foreign policy, a popular perception of the time. However, subsequent research has illustrated it was his government which enlarged Britain's nuclear capabilities and worked to secure the procurement of Trident. Simply living in a period doesn't necessarily correlate to understanding. Hindsight, analysis and investigation are all essential to understanding the past.
Quote: nothavinit wrote in post #61You don't need to have lived through that period to understand it, you can still understand history, and a lot better than some of the morons who were there at the time.
This has to be one of, if not, the most crass post in the history of offhand!
Crass because it's true? Living in an era doesn't mean you understand it. You need to look beneath the surface at the underlying contradictions and forces etc to really understand what is going on in society. One can study history to understand it.
Thatcher destructed manufacturing, condemned millions to unemployment, was complicit in covering up the Hillsborough disaster and treated football fans like scum. I know many members on here are football fans, praising her is CRASS! Working people fighting for their right to work and a living wage deserve 'smashing'? Now that's CRASS!
And Thatcher did all that on her lonesome!
You need to step down off your soapbox and look at the bigger picture. Back in the day Britain needed to change, unions were ruining/running the country we needed a strong leader, enter Maggie. If Thatcher and her mob were so wrong why didn't Bliar and his cronies put it back to how it was 'in the good old days'
Over to you.
New Labour are effectively Tories, they continued her legacy and look where that legacy has left us...
Regarding Hillsborough, she was in full collaboration with the police. The police had impunity and football fans were regarded as second-class citizens, she didn't give a toss about the 96 that lost their lives. Even Cameron admitted she failed.
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Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:30 am (Last edited: Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:32 am)
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