Quote: Benji wrote in post #49Cloughie said it best in an interview with John Motson...
Fans and pundits criticise referees too much when a referee has 2/3 seconds to make a decision while we have video replays and can watch it over and over again...
Of course and any sane individual knows that. What is cringeworthy is the loons talking about the FA being corrupt and that United get all the decisions because of brown envelopes etc etc ZZZZzzzzzzz. If the game is corrupt then why do they bother watching? And remember, the refereeing before United started winning titles was perfect, no one else ever got decisions going for them.
It's a crutch for them... Instead of saying they shouldn't have won they say they should have won but the ref/linesman was shite...
Having seen the replay of the Suarez 'goal' at Goodison, there was a foul by the Liverpool player climbing all over the Everton defender who nodded the ball across before goofy put it in the net. So, it was right to disallow the 'goal' anyway.
Quote: jack5 wrote in post #16It doesn't matter what teams are involved. Wrong decisions were made end of. That is what this thread is about.
Thank you I tried saying that at the start of the thread but certain people want to make it about what team you support.Yes you get some calls going for & against you what i am saying is it is happening every game with every team & the standard of refs & linesmen needs to improve drastically.
Quote: Vasque wrote in post #53Having seen the replay of the Suarez 'goal' at Goodison, there was a foul by the Liverpool player climbing all over the Everton defender who nodded the ball across before goofy put it in the net. So, it was right to disallow the 'goal' anyway.
LOL you & the linesmen must be the only people in the world to spot that! The linesman did not even flag until 2 Everton players went to talk to him Even Gary Neville said it was a goal & the linesman bottled it in a hostile atmosphere & i think he knows a lot more about the game than me & you. I enjoy reading your anti Liverpool posts they always make me laugh!
#56 | RE: Refs & LinesmenMon Oct 29, 2012 6:36 pm (Last edited: Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:37 pm)
STEVECFC
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the aftermatch gets intense scrutiny , refs blunders means they get marked down , they underachieve and get dropped to the Championship .. imagine many refs and linesman take their job serious and have pride in getting it right .. take Torres incident , imagine many chatting about it today will be torn what decision would have been right , clattenburg got one look .. like I've said before , try doing it for yourself to see how hard it is .. and a thankless task ..
funny how much influence managers have too .. ferguson is the past master at getting everyone talking about how important the ref will be come matchday , his crying afterwards at how for 10 years Utd were diddled out of decisions was laughable - does he want the ref on his side both home and away now ?
I've no complaints on the offside goal. We got one at OT a couple of seasons back so you get some/you don't.
the Torres second booking was shocking though. Fair enough if it's 100% clear he dived - but it wasn't hence why umpteen video clips were needed to try and determine if contact was made. He must have known he was effectively giving the game to Utd in the circumstances by sending Torres off - so it was a poor poor decision. Now, apparently, even if there is contact, it's still a dive....a new one on me, that one. Look forward to Fergies views when he's Rooney goes to ground under similar contact - or worse still - like the Sol Campbell/Invincibles penalty...... Neville called it 100% right afterwards. It was never simulation. End of.
I'll take the positives. We gave them a 2 goal lead, came back and looked like going on to win it until we went to 10. It still took another sending off and offside goal for us to lose it so can't be too disappointed. And still top with a comparatively new team and way of playing so all in all, I'd have been happy with that at the start of the season.
"The nightmares invading the sleep of Bayern fans involve four horsemen of the Champions League Apocalypse riding towards them. As the faces come into focus, they will recognise Frank Lampard, Cole, Petr Cech and Drogba. All were immense..."
Quote: STEVECFC wrote in post #56the aftermatch gets intense scrutiny , refs blunders means they get marked down , they underachieve and get dropped to the Championship .. imagine many refs and linesman take their job serious and have pride in getting it right .. [b]take Torres incident , imagine many chatting about it today will be torn what decision would have been right[/b] , clattenburg got one look .. like I've said before , try doing it for yourself to see how hard it is .. and a thankless task ..
funny how much influence managers have too .. ferguson is the past master at getting everyone talking about how important the ref will be come matchday , his crying afterwards at how for 10 years Utd were diddled out of decisions was laughable - does he want the ref on his side both home and away now ?
don't agree Steve. Nothing to be torn about. No ref could never have been 100% certain that was a dive. Common sense needs to prevail. already at ten men and knowing the player will walk with another booking? never a card in my opinion. and before anyone says "the rules of the game...." etc.....the rules of football aren't applied literally. Otherwise, every week we'd have 6 pens a game from shirt pulling at corners and 8 a side from players swearing at the ref so the rules aren't applied literally. The best refs use common sense.
@Vasque - Andy, as for Torres on Cleveley, presumably Twatenburg was only following the same decision making process your favourite ref applied in the World Cup final with De Jong
"The nightmares invading the sleep of Bayern fans involve four horsemen of the Champions League Apocalypse riding towards them. As the faces come into focus, they will recognise Frank Lampard, Cole, Petr Cech and Drogba. All were immense..."
ref aside though Glenn , I'm more concerned how easily Utd walked two goals in , and how fragile our defense looks , Luiz - for me - is shocking at times , and he only seems to get going when we are 2 down , and 2 players down .. he was to blame for CL defeat , and for both Utd goals .. going forward we are great to watch , imagine RDM will be tempted top recall Lukaku ..
Quote: mkj1972 wrote in post #6I`m sick of football at the moment people go on about players diving & cheating but the biggest cheats of all are the officials.
This along with the farce going on at City at the minute has left completely disinterested in football. The game is rotten to the core.
My feelings also, despite not supporting a club in the premier greed, there's so much coverage, you can't help but watch it. Sky love it though, its all part of the package for them, football is very tiresome at the moment, no humour either...
Quote: STEVECFC wrote in post #60ref aside though Glenn , I'm more concerned how easily Utd walked two goals in , and how fragile our defense looks , Luiz - for me - is shocking at times , and he only seems to get going when we are 2 down , and 2 players down .. he was to blame for CL defeat , and for both Utd goals .. going forward we are great to watch , imagine RDM will be tempted top recall Lukaku ..
aye, agree mate. he's never a centre back Luiz. holding midfielder, full back or something but his mistakes and wrong positional calls are terrible. He got done by RVP in the first 2 mins trying to anticipate and diving in. Knew then he'd give something away. And Cahill completely lost RVP for the second. still mate, some of the football is great. Hazard and Oscar have settled brilliantly.
"The nightmares invading the sleep of Bayern fans involve four horsemen of the Champions League Apocalypse riding towards them. As the faces come into focus, they will recognise Frank Lampard, Cole, Petr Cech and Drogba. All were immense..."
Are you being serious when you say United haven't been hard done by at the Bridge over the past years?
As for yesterday, to be fair Torres should have gone just before half time so Chelsea got a break there. To say that Torres didn't 'dive' is a bit unfair. It was a foul by Evans granted, but the simulation and exageration afterwards was daft. He's trying to make it look worse than it was and IMO trying to get Evans sent off. That is as bad as diving when there is no contact. It's still simulation. I don't care who any player plays for I'd make diving or simulation/play acting an immediate sending off offence. As for the offside decision well United got a break with that but when you see the view the linesman had then it was nigh impossible for him to see it.
Watch normal service be resumed on Wednesday when United's kids will get fuck all go their way.
Quote: Vasque wrote in post #53Having seen the replay of the Suarez 'goal' at Goodison, there was a foul by the Liverpool player climbing all over the Everton defender who nodded the ball across before goofy put it in the net. So, it was right to disallow the 'goal' anyway.
LOL you & the linesmen must be the only people in the world to spot that! The linesman did not even flag until 2 Everton players went to talk to him Even Gary Neville said it was a goal & the linesman bottled it in a hostile atmosphere & i think he knows a lot more about the game than me & you. I enjoy reading your anti Liverpool posts they always make me laugh!
I think it was a foul, Coates was climbing all over the Everton defender and would be given every time on the half way line.
If you like a laugh then this quote from Stevie 'Starfish' Gerrard will make you howl. The lack of self-awareness of Liverpool fans and players is truly astounding.
“I feel sorry for our lads because I thought we were fantastic today and deserved to win.
“We had a young, small team out there but they were all men today and stuck together. There was one team here who came to play football and win the game and that was us.”
“I think Phil Neville badly let his manager down today,” added Gerrard.
“His manager did every paper, every radio station and every TV channel talking about Luis Suarez and then his captain, who is meant to be setting an example, blatantly dives.
“If David Moyes is a real man and a real manager, which I think he is, then he will be speaking to Phil Neville about it.
Quote: Vasque wrote in post #63Are you being serious when you say United haven't been hard done by at the Bridge over the past years?
As for yesterday, to be fair Torres should have gone just before half time so Chelsea got a break there. To say that Torres didn't 'dive' is a bit unfair. It was a foul by Evans granted, but the simulation and exageration afterwards was daft. He's trying to make it look worse than it was and IMO trying to get Evans sent off. That is as bad as diving when there is no contact. It's still simulation. I don't care who any player plays for I'd make diving or simulation/play acting an immediate sending off offence. As for the offside decision well United got a break with that but when you see the view the linesman had then it was nigh impossible for him to see it.
Watch normal service be resumed on Wednesday when United's kids will get fuck all go their way.
where did I say that? you mean about the offside goal? No, I wasn't being funny. We got a clear offside one that helped us win the league at OT so I'm not bleating about the goal. In truth, I never clocked it as offside myself until the replays.
we'll have to disagree on this one mate. it's hard enough determining simulation where no contact is made. How do you call it when there's contact? For years now, players have gone down under contact. It's impossible to police. You think it's simulation even with contact. I don't. There's no obligation to stay on your feet if hit that I'm aware off if there's contact? yeah, back in the good ole days players stayed on their feet as it was the culture - like Bestie under tackle from Chopper. But going down when there's contact has been around for years. Michael Owen admitted he as much recently about the Argie game and that was in 98. and regarding making more of it, there would be 1000s of examples of players that we could deem to go down more theatrically than they should. that can't be a gage. Just because a player does down like a dying swan - doesn't mean he wasn't fouled. Bottom line is, if there's contact, it's a foul for me - certainly in the context of football nowadays. to deal with simulation, they should be done by a panel that includes ex-players after the games - and bans handed out then. I think that's a pragmatic way of trying to eradicate it from the game.
"The nightmares invading the sleep of Bayern fans involve four horsemen of the Champions League Apocalypse riding towards them. As the faces come into focus, they will recognise Frank Lampard, Cole, Petr Cech and Drogba. All were immense..."
Quote: Vasque wrote in post #53Having seen the replay of the Suarez 'goal' at Goodison, there was a foul by the Liverpool player climbing all over the Everton defender who nodded the ball across before goofy put it in the net. So, it was right to disallow the 'goal' anyway.
LOL you & the linesmen must be the only people in the world to spot that! The linesman did not even flag until 2 Everton players went to talk to him Even Gary Neville said it was a goal & the linesman bottled it in a hostile atmosphere & i think he knows a lot more about the game than me & you. I enjoy reading your anti Liverpool posts they always make me laugh!
I think it was a foul, Coates was climbing all over the Everton defender and would be given every time on the half way line.
If you like a laugh then this quote from Stevie 'Starfish' Gerrard will make you howl. The lack of self-awareness of Liverpool fans and players is truly astounding.
“I feel sorry for our lads because I thought we were fantastic today and deserved to win.
“We had a young, small team out there but they were all men today and stuck together. There was one team here who came to play football and win the game and that was us.”
“I think Phil Neville badly let his manager down today,” added Gerrard.
“His manager did every paper, every radio station and every TV channel talking about Luis Suarez and then his captain, who is meant to be setting an example, blatantly dives.
“If David Moyes is a real man and a real manager, which I think he is, then he will be speaking to Phil Neville about it.
To be fair, Neville's dive was embarrassing. He apoligised afterwards and Moyes wasn't happy about it. If Liverpool came to play the game then Suarez wasn't in the dressing room when they spoke about it.
Glenn, I wasn't specifically aiming that comment at you it was aimed at anyone who doesn't think United have had a rough deal at the Bridge in recent times.
I have to be honest and admit that I believe this 'there was contact' argument is nonsense. I know it's become part of the rules but in a contact sport I can't accept that the merest of touches means that it is a foul. Does that law only apply to the legs? What if I touch you with my back, shoulder, hand or chest? It has become farcical with super slow-mo cameras being used and 'experts' looking for the slightest of touches to claim a foul.
I'm not having a pop at Torres here because there are much worse examples of cheats than him, Young for one, but lets take the Evans challenge as an example. I honestly don't believe the contact from Evans was enough to bring Torres down so he had to simulate the fall which is what got him the yellow. Players are encouraged to go to ground in these cases so at times you can't blame them but to me it's all a load of bollocks.
Quote: Dorfulton wrote in post #67To be fair, Neville's dive was embarrassing. He apoligised afterwards and Moyes wasn't happy about it. If Liverpool came to play the game then Suarez wasn't in the dressing room when they spoke about it.
It was a terrible dive I'm not disputing that, more the hypocrite slating players for diving.
Quote: Dorfulton wrote in post #67To be fair, Neville's dive was embarrassing. He apoligised afterwards and Moyes wasn't happy about it. If Liverpool came to play the game then Suarez wasn't in the dressing room when they spoke about it.
It was a terrible dive I'm not disputing that, more the hypocrite slating players for diving.
Not only a hypocrite but dillusional. He claimed we played long ball football. Stats showed we played it on the floor more than them...and I thought we were supposed to be bitter. Must be the tide is changing.
Thing about the Torres sending off was that Evans slid in. Half the time when someone slides in on you you expect there to be contact and half the time expect to be nailed, meaning you fall over. I feel for him in that aspect, but as has already been said, he should have been off in the first half.
Also; Anyone see Bales ''dive'' a few weeks ago? I also think that falls under that category^
somewhat Torres defense , watch his sock as Evans makes contact .. his studs do get dragged down it a bit .. it might not warrant him going down , but last season home to Swansea Torres sent off for similar offense ..
i dont understand why when a ref has a shocker he gets demoted to the championship,why do we have to put up with the clown? is it different rules for championship or summat? should just get a ban like a player who fucks up does
Quote: Parkender wrote in post #73i dont understand why when a ref has a shocker he gets demoted to the championship,why do we have to put up with the clown? is it different rules for championship or summat? should just get a ban like a player who fucks up does
when has a player who "fucks up" ever been banned? Take it you've never had a bad day at the office, yeah?
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Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:25 pm
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Neville called it 100% right afterwards. It was never simulation. End of. 
